Krysti-Lee Patterson - Navigating Unconventional Paths in Pharmacy

We’re turning the microphone around as guest host Jenny Kirschner interviews our usual host, Krysti-Lee Patterson, about her own pharmacy career journey - from accidentally discovering pharmacy while studying biomedical science, to leadership, advocacy, entrepreneurship, and building innovative education platforms like lrnrx.

What shaped her path?
Mentorship, resilience, curiosity, and a willingness to pursue opportunities outside traditional pharmacy career pathways.

What drives her work today?
A passion for innovation in pharmacy, empowering pharmacists to recognise their value, and creating new opportunities for education and professional growth. 

In this episode:

• The mentors and experiences that shaped Krysti-Lee’s career
• Lessons learned through leadership and advocacy
• Navigating ADHD and entrepreneurship
• Starting and building a business without a financial safety net
• Innovation, disruption, and the future of pharmacy
• Why pharmacists need to better understand their professional value

This conversation is an honest reflection on the realities of leadership, entrepreneurship, and building a meaningful career that doesn’t follow a traditional or linear path.

A huge thank you to Jenny Kirschner for leading such a thoughtful and insightful discussion.

You can find Krysti-Lee Patterson on LinkedIn.

Do you have questions about your pharmacy career? Then contact us or meet our team.

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:01)
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven's Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession, from expert advice to inspiring success stories. We're here to spark ideas, guide your career and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.

speaker-1 (00:26)
Welcome to your Pharmacy Career Podcast. Today's episode is a little different. We're turning the microphone around. Usually, Krysti-Lee Patterson is the one asking the questions, unpacking the journeys, lessons and career stories of pharmacists across Australia. But today we're going behind the microphone to explore her story. Today we'll talk about accidental career paths, mentorship,

leadership mistakes, advocacy, ADHD and entrepreneurship, innovation in pharmacy, building businesses without a safety net. And what happens when you stop trying to fit into a traditional career mould? Krysti-Lee, welcome to your own podcast.

speaker-0 (01:13)
Thank you so much Jenny for joining me on this podcast and getting me to sit on the other side.

speaker-1 (01:20)
Okay, we're going to jump straight in. And my first question for you is pharmacy actually wasn't your original career plan. What did you think you were going to do when you started out?

speaker-0 (01:31)
Yeah. So when I first started out, I wanted to either be a lab rat in the CSIRO or to be a doctor, like many pharmacists, but it wasn't until I started working in a pharmacy that I realized that this is actually something that I wanted to do. And how I started working in the pharmacy was completely by chance. And

I was studying a different degree at the time. So was studying biomedical science by distance through the university of New England. And I was actually at a local pharmacy with my friend getting her ears pierced. Can you believe it? And she had one of the managers said, do you know anyone that's looking for some weekend work? And I said, actually I am. So that's how I got the weekend job. So, and then from there I.

then started dropping back from my biomed courses and subjects and worked my way up to a dispense tech, full-time dispense tech. And the pharmacists that I worked for, they were really supportive and from the beginning, they focused very much on their staff and the patients and education. And so I think that's definitely shaped who I am now. But at the time.

I was always giving them these reasons as to why I shouldn't switch degrees. And yeah, I think if it wasn't for their support to say, you know what you can go to a university that's close to home, because this was in Manjimangi. I can't remember if I'd said that. So I didn't want to move to Sydney. I wanted to stay close to home and they said, about CSU? like, CSU, where's that?

Yeah. And some of the other pharmacists that had worked there actually had studied there. And yeah, I guess the rest is history.

speaker-1 (03:27)
That's so interesting because you've had some really influential mentors early in your career and you've just shared one example. Were there any other people who were really influential and what kind of impact did they have on you and your trajectory?

speaker-0 (03:40)
I

guess if I'm thinking of just like the pharmacist from that time at that pharmacy, all of the pharmacists there had a really big impact on me. And just seeing how they were with their patients and the impact that they had on them. Do you know, I could actually really make a difference. And at the time I didn't realize I had ADHD.

But I'm a people person. can't just be, I guess, in a lab. I couldn't do that. I really love that social interaction. And I just thought, you know what, this is for me. But I also think I'm very grateful and very blessed to have experienced that pharmacy early on. They were very innovative at the time. So this was in the early 2000s and they had a weight clinic where they had a specialist weight consultant.

And they had, yeah, a number of other, I can't think of them now, but the number of services and I'd never really seen that before. And I thought, wow, this is like, this is just amazing. And I thought, you know what, I think this is something that I can do. But also one of the other things I think that has helped with some of my mentors is also once I, not even once I finished my degree, but even during my degree.

I started working at a pharmacy in Orange and my mentor there was Taryn Gill, who ended up being my preceptor for my internship. So again, I'm very lucky to worked under her. She really shaped me in something that I remember. And I don't know, she might, probably might laugh and I'm kind of jumping a little bit forward here, but she said to me, what type of pharmacist do you want to be? Do you just want to be one that passes? Or do you want to be one that actually.

knows her stuff or something along those lines. Cause at that point in time, I was like, just need to pass, right? So I'm always looking for the quick, easy way to do things and not the hard way. And that has always stayed with me because I just thought, yeah, you know what, like she wasn't saying that you had to get a hundred percent, you like what type of pharmacist do I want to be? And if am I happy to be like that?

speaker-1 (05:55)
And I think that also speaks to the importance of preceptors and the importance of engaging with the right kind of person. Like actually that question, I feel like she asked you was also asking what values do you have and how do you bring most values to the workplace? You know, are you just wanting to pass or are you going to stand in your full self and give of your whole heart to the community?

speaker-0 (06:19)
hadn't actually thought about it that way, but yeah, I think that's a, yeah, a hundred percent exactly what she was trying to get at, think, which is great. And it also came working at that particular pharmacy. It was very busy during my internship. They had, I think it was like 11 or 12 nursing homes. was like, it was just pumping and that pharmacy, I was lucky to have such an inspiring mentor. But prior to that, I'd worked at

quite a few other random pharmacies here and there throughout my studies. And I didn't have the greatest experience. And I was actually starting to question, oh my gosh, what have I done? This is nothing like that little pharmacy I started working at in Mudgee. And so I was actually thinking, oh my gosh, actually, yeah, once I finished my internship, I want to go and study something else. But then yeah, I was lucky that where I did my internship.

I was around some really supportive people, but I also got to experience a conference.

speaker-1 (07:23)
What was the difference with that intern pharmacy and the experiences that nearly turned you away from pharmacy as a career?

speaker-0 (07:31)
good question. I haven't really thought about it in too much detail, but I think what it was that again, I could see the impact that the pharmacist have on the patient. So this particular pharmacy that I was working at, I mean, my internship, they're very big on, on customer service, but not customer services in like, hi, hello, but kind of going the extra mile because it's health, right? It wasn't just about sales or products or, or even though it was so busy, they

actually still wanted you to talk to the patients, which I hadn't seen that at some of the other places I'd worked at before. I remember actually one pharmacy I was working at and I was spending some extra time with a potential patient or customer and they left without buying anything. But I remember this so clearly. And so it was actually a mom who had an autistic son and I really just think she just wanted someone to talk to.

And then afterwards I got pulled aside and they said, ⁓ why were you talking to your friend? I'm like, I've never seen her before in my life. I spent way too long with them. And I was just like, what? This is not, this is not on. And so, but rather than just kind of putting up with it, I just, left. So I definitely think that the way I've also been brought up with my parents is to dig two guns and what you believe in and what your values are. And even though at the time I maybe didn't know there were values, but there was something in me.

that just felt, this doesn't feel right. And I'm like, well, but I had a job in a pharmacy and it was helping me, was getting me money. But I thought, you know, I'd rather have no job than be in Centrelink than work for someone like that. It's a special

speaker-1 (09:12)
story that you share. I'm sure there's a pharmacist out there listening who remembers that time where they gave advice over selling a product and feel satisfied that that was the choice, feel that that was the right choice in that moment. And that that, as we know, breeds loyalty because it comes from a really authentic place of connection and care. So that's a really ⁓ beautiful story that you shared. The fact that you left and owned your worth is also a beautiful story.

Okay. So you were talking to me about a conference that you attended. I think it was an APP conference.

speaker-0 (09:45)
Yes. So this is another thing that I think is quite funny and how the impact of, like, even at the time I didn't really consider Tarina and mentor as more just like she was my boss and a friend, I guess. Didn't really understand what mentor was, but she suggested that I go to APP conference with her during my internship.

And I've never been to a conference before. was that person where I was considered a maturation. So I just wanted my bit of paper. I wasn't there to make friends. just get in and get out, get it done. And just was like, Oh, I don't know. Like, I bother? And cost was also another thing as well. So I had to support myself. So I was living away from home and living with someone at the time. And so it was financially something I thought, it's, it's, it's not worth it.

And she convinced me to do it. And yeah, I was very grateful that pharmacy they paid for me to attend, which was really, really nice. And it changed my whole perspective. Like it opened up my eyes to yeah, what pharmacy could be, which is really funny because at that time, I still remember that particular conference was that it was considered that the turning point from pharmacy and everyone was talking about chemists warehouse just coming into the market and.

And you either have to differentiate or go discount. And that was the first year that pharmacists were allowed to vaccinate as well. So like there was a lot of change and, I remember, yeah, seeing all these pharmacists and pharmacy industry people, professionals that were loving the industry, they were so passionate. even though there was some, guess, unknown and uncertainty.

which I now realized that there was always unnoticed uncertainty. I swear every year they're saying there's a crossroads. Yeah, almost 15 years later or whatever it was, there's still the crossroads. But I just realized that, yeah, that this is a really good profession to be in and that even though, yeah, there may be some places that aren't right, there are places out there that are. And so that to me was, yeah, really just invigorated me, which was.

really, really what I needed, I think.

speaker-1 (11:58)
So was it the scale of the conference or the fact that there were a large number of people there from industry pharmacists that were just passionate and excited about different aspects of pharmacy that you otherwise might not have been exposed to? What actually was it about the conference that was so significant for you? Cause that's really interesting. It also makes me feel like early career pharmacists listening, the importance of getting out there at times and going to conferences, attending things, even if it might not be your

speaker-0 (12:19)
any

speaker-1 (12:27)
instinctive response, you know, to attend or not attend. Yeah.

speaker-0 (12:31)
Yeah, firstly, it was quite overwhelming because of the sheer size and the scale of it. had no idea it was going to be going to a concert. And they even have concerts on there. Like I think that year was the year I think they had the potbellies performing at one of the social events. so that was, it was a little bit intimidating. So I think if I was attending on my own, I don't think I would have done it if it wasn't for the fact that I had that safe in there.

My preceptor there with me, my boss set with me kind of taking her under her wing. And I think for people that know me now, they might be quite shocked to hear this, but I was terrified of just like meeting new people and just introducing myself because I guess it now kind of comes more easier to me because I've had a lot of practice. But I was terrified and I remember, I think this is another good thing about having a good mentors, getting them to push you out of your comfort zone. Not necessarily, it's always been your friend.

And again, another time I remember sitting there at lunch, Taran was one side of me and there was a pharmacist sitting, yeah, a couple of chairs down. I can't remember who they were, but she's like, I introduced herself to that pharmacist over there. was like, Oh my God, like, what do I even say? Like, I don't even know who he is. Like, Oh my gosh. And he was someone that was like kind of known in the industry too. was like, Oh my God, I can't say hello. Like I'm just a little, little mouse. And.

But I did, I did it. Just say hi. What's the worst that can happen? I'm like, that he doesn't say anything back. And she's like, who cares? I'm like, oh, it's just my whole ego. anyway, but like it just, she made it in a way that was safe to do that. And yeah. So I just said, hi, I'm Krysti. What brings you here? Is this your first conference? And yeah, he was like, oh no, this is like my 10th or whatever conference. And yeah, then it was just so easy. But.

I don't think if it wasn't for her kind of pushing me into just say hi, cause it is, it can be very daunting when you're new in the industry and wanting to talk to people. So yeah, I'm very grateful for that. Whereas I think if I'd, first of all, I wouldn't have attended if it wasn't for her. then secondly, cause it is such a huge, overwhelming space. And as someone that does have ADHD and I can get very overwhelmed in those spaces.

I probably would have just hit or like on back to my room or just gone and listened to the sessions and not done any of the other stuff. ⁓ which yeah, is funny, but they're just a couple of things that stick out to me.

speaker-1 (15:09)
And it's so interesting and we'll get to this later on. But like you said, listeners might be very curious to know that you were shy back then or you were quiet or you found it hard to say hello because yeah, you've come a long way from there. So, but we'll get there. We won't rush ahead. I guess I'd love to know a little bit now about the fact that you became a pharmacist in charge relatively early in your career. So you've shared with us about your internship and working.

speaker-0 (15:24)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (15:36)
Yeah. What leadership lessons did you learn the hard way? Or tell us a little bit about being a pharmacist in charge.

speaker-0 (15:42)
Yeah, I think what I thought at the time a pharmacist in charge did and what they actually do were two different things. And so for me, I've always been that someone where if I can see that there's a better way of doing things, I feel compelled to let people know, which can be a good thing and it can also be a challenging thing as well. And so like I could not wait to be a PRC so I can be like, yes, I can't wait to implement all these things. I've gone to all these conferences.

Like, let's just get in and do it. go in guns late. And I'm very also grateful that I was in a workplace where again, I was given the opportunity to step up into a role very early in. So I think I was only second year out of being an intern and they probably knew what was going to happen.

speaker-1 (16:15)
Giggling because I'm predicting what happens next. Keep going.

speaker-0 (16:41)
But they gave me that place to, guess, fend for myself in a safe way. And so I went in there, yeah, literally, guns way easier. Gung Ho, yeah. Gung Ho. ⁓ With all my great new ideas and we're going to change this and do this and this is going to go here and ⁓ my gosh. And this was only like not even the end of week one. And so I got a lot of pushback from the staff, which I did not understand because...

I'm like, I'm making it better for them. Like this process makes it easy for them. And it's funny, I had a pharmacist in Forbes and I said that to her. was, yeah, one of the owners. And I was like, I don't understand why, like they're upset with me. Like I'm making it easier for them. And she said to me, you've got to bring them on the journey with you, make them feel part of it. So rather than just someone new coming in and flicking everything upside down and yet not even to be consulted.

And that to me, like, still couldn't really understand it because I thought, but like, I'm making it easier. It's better. But she said to me, like, how would you feel though, if you've been doing something a certain way for a certain period of time and it's working, it's not broken. It works in whatever way it is. Yeah. What are the things that maybe you could have asked them? What are the things that they think that need change and help them do it? And yeah, it's funny. then, so I actually, as time progressed, I.

Yeah, I spoke to the team and I was very open and honest about it and I was like, Oh, look, guys. So, and yeah, tried to get them to bring, I guess their ideas forward and that I was listening. And by the end of it, by the time I left that pharmacy, they all were like, you're the one of the best people I've ever had. And, they said, Oh, when you first came, we were like, we were all ready to quit. And I'm like, Oh, well, thanks for being so honest. But I think a couple of things stand out to me and it kind of like picking your battles, I think.

one of them, like, and I used to hate it when people said that to me, but I mean that in a way of like, when you are implementing change, yeah, sometimes the things that you might care about, the rest of the team don't care about, and also letting them know why things need to change also helps. wasn't giving them the opportunity to be heard. And then I wasn't giving them the opportunity to understand why I wanted to make those changes. And so they're the probably two big learnings.

speaker-1 (19:07)
Again,

we might come to this a little bit later, but to me, reflecting on you and your journey, you just shared really what I think is what you now have embedded into your product and in your product management is hearing the problem, hearing people and using that to take steps forward. So we'll come to that discussion around LearnerX a little bit later on, but actually have, I don't know, maybe we join the dots there. Think about that opportunity or that moment in time that you learned that it's really important to.

speaker-0 (19:22)
See.

speaker-1 (19:37)
not just go and fix, but to explore the problem with the people on the journey. And then you kind of create a solution that's collaborative really, or co-designed, because you've heard where they're at. So I think that's a really ⁓ great point to reflect on, great thought to reflect on. Okay, so we're going to move now a little bit to more around advocacy and leadership and finding your voice. At what point in your career did you realize

that your career might actually extend beyond traditional pharmacy roles.

speaker-0 (20:09)
put an exact finger on it of like this moment where I just woke up one day and thought, great, so I'm going to go do something else. But I think there's been little moments throughout my career that kind of planted the seed maybe subconsciously. maybe before I think about my career journey outside of pharmacy, but maybe just being outside of the actual physical four walls of pharmacy and how do pharmacists get what things they can do outside of that.

When I was working in, yeah, for the Life Pharmacy Group and then also too, when I was working with Taryn in Orange, a lot of the owners or the pharmacists there were in positions at the Guild and the PSA. so again, I was lucky to, I guess, see these pharmacists that were pushing for change and doing something different. that, not that they necessarily didn't like what was going on and they felt they needed a change, but.

Yeah, doing something different and having an impact. And that to me was really inspiring. And then I think that's kind of when I thought, maybe that's something that I can do. Like how can I get involved in that? And one of the things was that I found out about this group called the early career pharmacists group and people that are listening to this now.

It's nowhere near like what it was. It was actually no, there wasn't, the big Facebook group. wasn't all these great events. It was very much, yeah, just people coming together. ⁓ it wasn't really formally organized through the PSA at that time. And I remember, I think it took me like months to try and find the right person to even talk to it. And then to try and find out how to get on it because there was no like.

expression of interest. was no, it was just like, somehow you just get on this by someone you know. So I kind of made it my mission to be like, no, like how do I get on this? So I was probably a bit annoying, but yeah, it's talking to people at the PSA conferences. I'm like, how do I get onto this group? I've heard of this group. Like how do I be part of it? And so I think, yeah, being the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

speaker-1 (22:22)
I was going to say determined, but yeah.

speaker-0 (22:24)
Determination. So that kind of helped being part of that. then through that work and then seeing some of the pharmacists that I worked with sit on branch committees, I thought that maybe that's something that I could maybe put my hand up for. And someone actually suggested that to me at one of the PSA conferences. And I thought, no, like I'm way, like I'm too young. I gave all these reasons as to why I shouldn't nominate. And.

I'm like, but what if no one votes for me? how embarrassing. But she's like, but you know what, like, at least you gave it a go, right? And she's also said to me, like, that's how you then start building a profile. And then next time you come around, people will know your name. And so again, with encouragement from others, I decided to, nominate and yeah, somehow I managed to go and get in, which is, which is great.

And that was a big learning curve too, because I also didn't know what goes on in a committee, like governance and how to, like there's a certain way to do things and yeah, and change takes time, especially in a membership organization where there's all these different States and then people represent the States and then that's got to go up and to people on policy committees and things. So that also was a huge learning thing for me to realize how long change can take though, as well.

speaker-1 (23:48)
Mmm. ⁓

speaker-0 (23:50)
But, and then through those roles, I started meeting other pharmacists that were doing things outside of just being a community pharmacist or just being a hospital pharmacist. And yeah, seeing them do all this cool stuff. Not that I necessarily want to do what they were doing, but I remember it was around the time when GP pharmacists was like brand new. I think it was like Debbie would be, it like the first one or something and asthma educators. And I was like, wow.

There's pharmacists out there that are just passionate in something and they're just turning it into a job. Like they're not sitting around waiting for someone else. So that to me, I thought was pretty, pretty cool and inspiring that there was pharmacists out there just, yeah, doing something a bit different.

speaker-1 (24:36)
So

fascinating. sounds like, I'll phrase the question, but it's like, it actually sounds like you really follow curiosity and opportunities rather than go out consciously to build a career strategy. Could anyone pack that? that, and has that continued in that way? Have you followed curiosity and opportunities or have you at some point thought, okay, I've seen all these different people and I now feel like this is where I want to go and you know, plan that out.

speaker-0 (25:04)
Yeah, it's interesting because I guess now in the position I am now and I look back in my career, think, oh yeah, it all makes sense. It all lines up. But at the time, like my whole plan was I couldn't wait to get back to Munchy and buy the pharmacy that I had originally worked at. That was my, I'm like, and because I also knew at the time that the pharmacist that owned that pharmacy was planning on selling it eventually. And so was like, well, I'm going to go to, go to university, become a pharmacist, and then I'm going to come back and buy this pharmacy. So that was like.

my plan, but then it's funny, life sometimes has different plans for you. And so I think it was, yeah, maybe little things that have happened along the way that has kind of opened my eyes up to other opportunities. And it's like, okay, well, maybe this isn't an opportunity for you right now. Cause yeah, very early on in my career life, wanted to, even once I started working in the central West, I was like, yeah, I want to own as soon as possible. But then things just happened that

push me onto a different path, but I guess rather than turning them down, I just, kind of like said yes to them, but I did purposely go out to seek different opportunities and what else is out there. So I think that's something that's different. Like I always kind of reflect on the different types of advice that people give and you hear some pharmacists or just people say, say yes to everything or others will say like, but sometimes.

You have to be asked to be able to say yes. how do you get yourself out there? ⁓ I think that sometimes can be hard, especially when you're early in your career or maybe a student or early career pharmacist. It's like, well, how do you put yourself in that position? So that you're considered. And so that for me was like, well, okay, well, if I want to be in this role or do whatever, I need people to think of me. so.

I guess I did, I don't know, maybe I did some leadership workshop or something. I can't remember. And it was like, yeah, we need to be building it like your profile. And so that was something I guess I did intentionally do early on, but I didn't know what that profile was going to be yet. But I guess I did make it, I guess, try and make it my mission to be considered for whatever opportunities they were. I wanted to be known.

speaker-1 (27:22)
Yeah, love that to be considered for what opportunities are out there. think that's such a beautiful takeaway for people just to sit with that and reflect on how do you put yourself in a position where you will be considered for opportunities. And then life happens, right, Krysti-Lee? Then life happens. So, you know, at the moment you've taken us through this journey and now you're getting more strategic around making sure you

in positions of opportunity. And then you had some major life transitions during your career time. And these things kind of included significant breakups, relocating to Sydney, later discovering that you had ADHD. I'd love to know how some of these experiences then shaped you or influenced your journey or changed the journey. How did that all wash together for you?

speaker-0 (28:15)
Well,

I think, yeah, the first one there was having a separation. So my partner and I had been together for seven years, which was basically my whole period of adulthood, I got pointing time in life. And yeah, it was a huge shock for me. Not like the breakup itself wasn't a shock, but it was a mutual thing. But I never thought that that would, I guess, it wasn't in my five year plan.

And so it then allowed me to start thinking differently about, okay, well, what are the other opportunities out there for me and what do I need to do? But I didn't figure that out straight away. So again, I think I was very grateful to have a really good boss that supported me through that time. And so like I told him what had happened and he's like, what do want to do? And I was like, I don't really know, but like, I think I might need some time off, but then I also like, just want to work. Like I just want to keep working and doing what I'm doing. And so.

That was also great to have that support there. But then, yeah, ended up meeting my now husband and he lived in Sydney. But then I was thinking about the different opportunities for me and what I wanted to do. And I knew then that I wanted to do something different. I knew that there was different pharmacy careers out there to be had. I didn't know what they were, but I felt unfortunately being in a rural area that those opportunities weren't going to be there for me, which.

I think you're sad and I would love to try and solve that problem, but I'm learning that I can't try and solve every problem. Someone else can try and solve that one. Yep. But I realized, okay, I Sydney is where my next move is. but then I'll say, okay, now what am I going to do? How am I going to get a job? And the group that I was working for expressed interest in wanting to move to Sydney.

said, do you have any opportunities for me? Like I'll do anything like, and they said, oh, we don't really have a role, but you could just help us with different random projects and things like that. we moved to Sydney and started doing that. And so I was working for the life group a couple of days a week, and then also working for what is now known as independent pharmacies of Australia. And then I ended up moving full time into independent pharmacies of Australia and yeah, running there.

I what was called professional services, but now probably more now programs and services. And then also during that time was COVID, right? And so this is, literally moved to Sydney in 2020. So March, 2020, I had been working in the office for only a couple months. And next thing you know, oh, you've got to work home, work at home for two weeks. I didn't even have a desk.

And yeah, two weeks turned into a couple of years. So that was also really interesting. So not only was I thrown into like a new job, like I was community pharmacist now, so I didn't know to work from home job. ⁓ first of all, I thought this is amazing. How cool is this? I am living the life. I love it. And it also meant to that, yeah, for during that time, I think everyone had a bit of a.

a COVID moment on like a kind of a lifestyle reset or a career reset. Like there were so many people that had changed careers post COVID. And I think for me, it was more like kind of like what's important to me. ⁓ who are the people that are important to me? But then it also made me think life's very short as well. And I think I also, I know I'm always very interested in like watching YouTube videos from like leaders and speakers across the world.

⁓ and in different industries as well, which I think is really important to not just be so insular, ⁓ to get outside things. And I kind of relate to the saying that says like, if you're not earning or learning from the place where you are, then maybe it's time to move on. And I felt like I got to a point where I wasn't doing either. Like either of them was like negative, but I just kind of.

Yeah. Like, okay, for my personal growth, there's, I felt there wasn't really any way for me to go next. and I wanted to learn some new things. And one of the ways that I thought I could do that was by starting an MBA. around this time was when I started my MBA, but then I also started looking for other opportunities. And that's when I started working for API Wes farmers, ⁓ right around the time they got acquired by Wes farmers. So that was also very different working, ⁓

Yeah, remotely in a, a true corporate. So it's very direct chains of command and the way they do things. And I guess the big difference to the two was that some of the things that I thought was frustrating and I thought I wanted to have that big corporate experience. I ended up starting to miss and so just little things like where previously I had it been, I could have just walked straight in, open door to the CEO and have a chat.

You can't do that in a big corporate like that. it's a way to do things. And don't get me wrong, like I absolutely loved it. I learned so much that people I worked with were great. But then it got to the point where, yeah, there was a big shift for people to start working back in the office again. We weren't moving to Melbourne. I had since gotten married. We bought a house, all these types of things.

And Melbourne was just not an option for me. And at the same time, I had started thinking about, yeah, starting my own business. So I'd always wanted to be a business owner. I remember talking about owning a pharmacy, but then I started thinking about consulting and I've met people that had done consulting roles in pharmacy. But what does that mean? And when I decided to make the move that I wanted to quit, but before I decided to quit, I reached out to some people in the industry, so some pharma company.

people when said, look, thinking about doing this, would you be my first client? ⁓ And in business they'll say nothing is signed until like it's signed. then even by then, unless the money's in the bank, don't get excited. But that did give me the confidence to think, okay, I can actually do this. I've got some leave. And then the other thing I thought was, well, what's the worst that could happen? I go back to being a pharmacist and that was my dream.

So like, yeah. Um, but then there's also other thoughts like, Oh, well, what if I go bankrupt or I don't have enough money to start this or what if I fail? And for me around the same time as this, I guess, change happened is when I found out that I had ADHD and there's something that I hadn't even considered until up and around that time. And that also got me thinking about maybe the way like.

the way my crew had been and where like, guess if you look at my CV now, people call it a portfolio. Korea. Um, and I've shaped all these experiences on purpose, but you know what, maybe it was just because I had ADHD and I got bored after two years. So maybe it was a little bit of that. And the other thing too is it sounds really crazy, but this thing that I was most scared of, and even today.

thing that I'm most scared of is that fear of public failure. And so for some reason I care about people who I've never met, what they think. And I didn't want to be seen as a failure in the industry. And that's just something that I've always dealt with, taking things too personally. And I've been told that time and time again throughout my career by different people, are you too sensitive, you're too emotional. And I would

get really upset and like, I don't know how many times I've cried ⁓ at work and I would try and hold it in I couldn't, but I now know that that's actually, I guess, a symptom of ADHD. It's called rejection sensitivity dysphoria or disorder dysphoria. I'd never even heard of that word. And even when I first got diagnosed, I didn't know that word. only learned that word this year. so it helps just give context. ⁓

speaker-1 (36:35)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (36:35)
So anyway, that's kind of a very short kind of overview of that part of my life. I could keep talking in some different areas, but I think, yeah, it was just time. And I also think that I was very grateful that I had a very supportive partner that enabled me to do that. Where I think with my previous partner, that's probably not something that I would have done. And I think that's why it's also important.

in life to choose the right people around you. And if those people around you aren't, I don't want to say aren't serving you because that makes it very selfish, but if yeah, like it's okay to leave those people behind as you grow, if it's for, yeah, for better. So I think, yeah, if I didn't have that support at home to be able to do that as well. And my husband and I, both knew it was going to be difficult starting something from scratch. Um, but.

We both thought, know, what we are in a position where we can try. 

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speaker-1 (37:54)
Krysti leaving a stable corporate role to start your own consulting business is really a huge leap. What scared you most?

speaker-0 (38:04)
A few things, I guess the first thing, financial stress is the first thing that comes to mind. And then the second thing, yeah, that fear of failure. So I'm not necessarily a perfectionist, but I do have this massive fear of failure. And so I think that they're probably the main two that comes to mind.

speaker-1 (38:25)
Okay. And as your consulting business evolved, what did you learn about how different parts of the industry value expertise and strategic thinking? Perhaps you might want to tell us a little bit about your consulting business for context for everybody.

speaker-0 (38:40)
So the consulting business now, it's a learning and development agency where we create content on behalf of predominantly pharmaceutical companies, but then also pharmacy, Benne groups and pharmacy organizations. But when I first started out, didn't, even though I wrote up my business plan and I had this strategy as to what I thought was going to happen. I thought my expertise and maybe where the gap is, is for independent pharmacies and I can consult to them.

But then, is funny that I thought that because I never actually asked any pharmacies if they would be willing to pay me, but I had actually asked people in pharma companies, would there be my client? And they said, yes. So I should have realized that from the beginning, but I guess I've got this soft spot for actual pharmacy. And I had reached out to some people. There was a couple of like small independent pharmacies that did, I did consult to that majority of them that.

They had heard of what I was doing. And then when it came to giving them the quote, a lot of them were so shocked, ⁓ at the price that I had to charge. ⁓ and I think it was because they still saw me as a pharmacist. ⁓ and I wasn't a pharmacist anymore. was now a consultant with expertise in education and program development, but there was still this perception that they should still pay me as a pharmacist employee. ⁓ and I wasn't that. And.

It was really hard to say no. Like I could have just said, well, how much will you give me? I'll do it for that. And I remember turning down a project to run some training sessions across a small group because just the travel to get there, what they were willing to pay me wouldn't have even covered the of the travel and the accommodation, let alone the time to develop all the resources and everything. ⁓

So I had to say no. And that came to me because I'd sat in some, I guess, workshops and business workshops that had been done not through the pharmacy industry, but I just saw, they just popped up as ads on my Instagram and I went to some of them and they always talked about valuing what you do as a business owner. And this does still relate to pharmacy and pharmacy owners, because I don't think we as pharmacists are good at valuing what we do.

and charging appropriately. so for me, I was, I drew a line in the sand and I was like, okay, I'm not going to do anything like that's going to devalue what I'm doing. Don't get me wrong. There has been situations where I've done things, I guess, for free, where there's a transfer of some sort of something in value in return. ⁓ so you can be strategic in that way and do things like that if it serves yet the right.

purpose for you. But in those situations, I was like, I turned it down and that was really hard because I'm like, my gosh, I'm turning down actual work. Like this is insane. But then I was able to charge so much more for yet and I reached out to farmers, farmer companies who value the expertise that I had and were willing to pay what I was asking for, which was amazing. So that gave me a lot of validation in.

that what I was doing was right and it was valued, but it also was hard because I was, I guess, limiting the number of the amount of income that was coming in at that time. But for me, I would have rather just work as a locum on those days where I wasn't getting that than to do things at, at a loss. So that was something that was important to me in the beginning. And then that kind of started shaping the business strategy. Okay. Well, these.

These people don't value this and you can lead a horse to a water, but you can't make a drink. And I decided to, I guess, pivot the business and just focus in the areas that were bringing the money. I guess.

speaker-1 (42:41)
It's so, what a journey of someone who went to a large conference as a young pharmacist and was shy to speak to the pharmacist next to you that you didn't know, to arriving in a position where you are asking companies for large amounts of money to show your value in the work that you do. what a journey, Krysti Lee.

speaker-0 (43:06)
Such

as

speaker-1 (43:07)
It's really a birthing. You've had to birthing yourself as well as businesses.

speaker-0 (43:12)
Yes, that's the end. That's still a journey and still learning even to this day. But it's good to reflect on what I've done. And I think that's also important for people to do is to sit back and reflect and be proud of what you've done. Cause it's so easy to keep looking at what's next and the things that you haven't achieved rather than thinking, Oh, but do you know where I was three months ago or 12 months ago or 10 years ago?

I would have been so proud of that person. like why, yeah, why am I kind of focusing on the niggies?

speaker-1 (43:47)
Tell us a little bit more about the no, right? You said no to something that must have been hard. Did you engage with mentors? You said you went to some training. What was that like and did that shift anything moving forward, how you engage now with opportunities? It's a big question.

speaker-0 (44:09)
That's

a big question. And I don't think I've really thought about it before. think, yes, there were some mentors that I had, but in the business sense, I think even though I had mentors as a pharmacist, I didn't yet have mentors in the startup space. Business mentors. And buying an existing business that's

profitable is very different to starting something from zero. And I soon realized that I needed just some other people that understood what I was going through. And so I started searching for a startup sort of programs and things. And I was kind of exposed to a bit of the startup world through.

an organization that's called Vitaibo now. So through my consulting work, I consulted to them for a few months on their new product. And so that kind of opened my eyes to the startup world. they told me about these startup programs and startup events where you can start meeting people that are doing the same thing as you. And that to me was really valuable. I think some of the startup world can be a little bit toxic, I think, because there's a huge kind of

perception, like if you're not raising millions of dollars and you're not making it. But for me, yeah, making connections with other people that experts in their industry, but taking a leap to do something new and putting everything behind it. And it's really tough and it's interesting. I sometimes reflect on the people that have helped me along the way and the people that haven't. And it's quite surprising that sometimes the people that you think are going to be your biggest supporters are not.

And so you, especially in business, you have to be comfortable with you are going to lose some people along the way. So I mentioned about losing people on purpose before, but this is not on purpose, but just people where they don't understand what you're doing because you have to say no to events. You have to say no to going out for dinner. You have to say no to birthdays and things like that. And sometimes they don't understand.

and that's really difficult because I've had some friendships, yeah, not progress because of that. But then I've also had others where I've made these amazing new friends along the way. So it's, I now reflect and think that people come into your life for a certain period of time on purpose. And so I don't get upset about it anymore, but that is something that I think people need to realize that yes.

it's not without sacrifice. And so it's, it's always a bit of a balance trying to manage everything. And yeah, unfortunately along the way sometimes, yeah, the people that you think are going to be supportive aren't. And so through my, I guess, my business ventures, I've had my fair share of struggles along the way. And yeah, people and, and ⁓ organizations, I guess, actively trying to stop me from what I'm doing.

And it's really difficult to, yeah, try and do something new and innovative in that way. And so what I'm talking about now is I guess my, the LRNRX business and the software business. whereas the consulting, it's probably more safe. It's stable. Gives me the ability to do what I want to do and also be able to sit on boards and things like that. starting the software business, that was a whole nother game.

speaker-1 (47:46)
Yeah. Okay. So how did the idea for LunarX first come about? We'd love to know a little bit more. Where did that seed come from?

speaker-0 (47:56)
Well, I think the seed has actually been sitting there for many, many years and I didn't realize that I would be the one to do it. Like I remember talking years and years prior, I'm like, ⁓ why isn't there an app? Like, why can't we do this on an app? And, ⁓ it didn't exist. And the biggest challenge that I was trying to solve in the beginning was that remember predominantly my clients are pharmaceutical companies and they need access to the data and analytics of the training content.

And the things that exist out there, it took them a long time to get that reporting back. And I just thought, this is ridiculous. How do I solve that problem? The other problem I saw was we're having to create so many different types of content for all these different platforms, all these different people. It's a waste of money. It's race of resources. Why can't we just make something once and distribute it?

via the One platform. And there's many reasons for and against this. Everyone's got their own agendas and things. So it's not always going to work that way, but there were two of the challenges I was, I guess, trying to solve. And the other one was a personal one, just as a pharmacist and having to do training, I found it really frustrating not being able to do anything on my phone quickly. So like when I was studying my MBA, institution I did it through, they had a mobile app. I could listen to everything on the app, do everything via the app.

didn't even have to open my laptop, which was really convenient because then I was able to study on my way to and from work on the train. I thought, why can't we do this in pharmacy? This is just crazy. What do you mean I have to stand in front of a desktop computer and do this? And I also thought about the pharmacy system where most of the time they're not in front of the computer. They're in front of their phones and their breaks and things. I thought, maybe if I create an app where people can access trains. So I thought, well, we'll give it a go.

and build it and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. So that was, I guess, the start of where I am today.

speaker-1 (49:55)
So you've done so many things and like you said, looking back, feels like all the dots align from starting in career, from board positions, from branch positions to, you know, attending, doing business, being in entrepreneurial worlds, solving problems. It's just, it's a beautiful journey. So building something innovative in a really small industry can be difficult. And I was just kind of wondering if you could share what

has been some of the hardest parts emotionally and professionally, just share a little bit about that side of entrepreneurship, yeah, in this relatively small industry.

speaker-0 (50:35)
I think there's been some incredible positivity that's come out of it, but then some also really intense negativities. And I guess the things that come to mind is I take things very personally. So for example, if a contract doesn't go through or a lead doesn't fall through, yeah, I would get quite upset about it and really question myself. And am I doing the right thing? Should I keep going? But then also too, it's difficult because

When you're trying to start something new and you think, everyone's just going to love this again. If I think back to how I was when I was first PIC and I was like, why don't people just love this and jump on board? There's all these other things that I hadn't considered. And so yeah, it's unfortunately, there are people out there that will, guess, try to not take you down, but try to restrict your growth. And the thing is you can't take that personally because it's just, it's business and.

But it's really hard to not take it personally when it is your own livelihood or it's your own money. Where I guess when I lost my first big client, I was very upset about it. But then my husband said to me, ⁓ what would have happened if this happened when you were at Wage Farmers? It's like, ⁓ I just would have gone to the next client. Like wouldn't have even been a big deal. He's like, yeah, why are you getting so upset? I was like, because I need this. Cause if I don't get this deal, then how are we going to pay our mortgage next month?

But just trying to take that personal rejection out of it, which is really hard. so focusing on, on the little wins as well. So, but then I was quite upset about a few things like that. And, but then I got a random email from someone I didn't know saying how much I love the app and how it was making their life so much easier. And then I thought, yes, this is why I'm doing it for people like you. And so that a real positive, but yeah, it is.

Very difficult to, yeah, again, try and start something from new and like I'll get people say to me, oh, why don't you have a standard APP? like, cause I can't afford it. I don't have unlimited budget. And so there's all these other things out there that can restrict. And then you also then get question two. I'm like, okay, well, are you still going to be around in five years time? And it's like, well, if you give me the contract, will be.

speaker-1 (52:59)
⁓ the support, right? Yeah.

speaker-0 (53:01)
Right. Yeah. But yeah, it's, ⁓ yeah, there's all these different challenges that you need to learn to be able to deal with. And the other thing too, is not letting it consume you too much. And I'm really not good at this, but yeah, not letting it be the detriment of my own health or my mental health or my relationships. So I have to quite often actively be like, okay, no, I'm not going to stay up till midnight or 3am working on this.

Don't get me wrong when I first, when we first launched the product. Yeah, we had a very tight deadline because I wanted to launch it before APP. And so we had essentially four months to build a brand new product in what would normally probably take people 12 to 18 months. We did it before because we were literally working 24 hours a day. Half the team were in Australia, half the team in India. And I got it done and.

I do kind of pride myself in that, but then also too, it's not sustainable. And so I think that's also something that, yeah, you need to be mindful of, not even just as a business owner, but just not letting work consume you, which is hard though, because unfortunately to get ahead and make change, you do sometimes need to make sacrifices, but yeah, just doing it wisely.

speaker-1 (54:20)
Yeah.

And then I guess on this same topic, what does keep you going during the difficult moment?

speaker-0 (54:25)
I think it depends on the day, sometimes it can be the adrenaline of getting that another user or getting that client across the line or finally getting that invoice being paid. But ⁓ bit of dopamine hits. ⁓ But then also to just thinking back to my why and why I'm doing it. okay, like.

speaker-1 (54:40)
A bit of dopamine, a few dopamine hits.

speaker-0 (54:52)
Yeah. Is the directory that I'm on, is it still fulfilling my wire size? I quite often go still, yeah, I guess take a break and think, okay, where am I going? Does this align with what I'm doing? This is aligned with my values and where I want to be. And I have to sometimes pull back. So for example, that might be on product roadmap development. I might need to pull back on things because it's very easy to then all of a sudden start chasing that tail and that.

North Star and then you've got to think, okay, hang on a minute. You've got to come back to does this align and is this sustainable?

speaker-1 (55:24)
Looking across your whole career so far, what are you most proud of?

speaker-0 (55:30)
What am I most proud of? The first thing that pops into mind is actually finishing my MBA. Which is funny, but for those that have done one, they know how stressful it is. But the other reason is because I was actually able to have my family there with me at my graduation where I didn't get that opportunity with my first degree. And so that to me was really important. And.

The other thing I'm most proud of is, yeah, I think even just making that first step to move away to go to Orange to study pharmacy. So my mom was a stay at home mom. My dad worked in the mines, is now an engineer, but yeah, I was, I was the first to actually go to university in my family. So that was a big deal. So that to me, I'm also very proud of as well.

speaker-1 (56:24)
Okay, and here's another, I really want to know that what do you think that pharmacists need more permission to do?

speaker-0 (56:33)
I think start seeing their actual value in asking for what they're worth. And I'm not just necessarily talking about being a pharmacy owner or manager and charging for services, but for example, in advocacy, right. I think that we give in too easily to saying yes and being the fix for, I guess, the failures in.

or some of the gaps in the health system. And we'll put our hand up and say, yeah, we can do that. And we, with that fear of missing out, so we'll just accept the first offer or something. look, I'm not part of any negotiation committees or anything, so I'm sure it's probably not the first offer. But I guess if you're just looking on face value and comparing with other industries or other medical.

I guess, lobby groups, they're much more successful at getting higher compensation for services and things like that. And so I think us as an industry, we need to actually get better at that and not being afraid to be like, okay, well then we won't do it then.

speaker-1 (57:45)
Yes, which comes back to the story you shared about saying no.

speaker-0 (57:50)
Hmm. Yes. And so I think there's a lot of pressure on us as an industry to fill the gaps and don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest supporter of an expanding scope and prescribing pharmacists. But again, we're moving forward and yeah, how, how is it actually going to be sustainable? And I mean, just look at looking at something like a dose administration aid, pharmacists do that a lot. They make up for that.

in other areas of services and remuneration. so this is why a lot of yet owners were very upset with 60 day dispensing coming in because they were relying on that income to subsidize the cost of other services where if we actually charged appropriately and had the right remuneration and compensation, then we wouldn't have to, I guess, worry so much. It's not an easy fix and I don't have the answer. And there's a lot of people that are out there.

fighting the good fight for us. And it is a balance between, yeah, just saying yes, but then also saying no. I think, yeah, I would be curious to know if there's other pharmacists out there that think the same thing around, yeah, when is it okay for pharmacists to be like, well, you know what, maybe we might sit this one out.

speaker-1 (59:06)
And if a pharmacist listening today feels stuck or uncertain about their future, what would you want them to hear from your story?

speaker-0 (59:15)
I think the main thing would be that it will pass and so no matter where you are right now, you might feel like there's no way to get out and that you're stuck, whether it's a job role or relationship or who knows what it is, but you will get through it no matter how hard it is. And yeah, I think that it can be as a career pharmacy really rewarding and

just because you might be in maybe a bit of a rough spot, have a look at why you are maybe in that rough spot and what's contributing to it. for example, I didn't really touch on it, but there were probably some situations where I left a job role where I felt like it was the problem, but there was actually other problems in my life around that time that I probably needed to work on. And so, yeah, maybe having a look at.

Yeah, some of the other areas. So for example, yeah, like my ADHD diagnosis, like getting that has opened up a lot of eyes and then I have an understanding as to who I am and that why I'm like I am. ⁓ there's reasons for that, which is really lovely. And so I don't know that really answers your question, but I, that's kind of my thoughts.

speaker-1 (1:00:30)
Yeah, no, that is wonderful. Krysti-Lee, thank you for letting us turn the microphone around today. What I think stands out most from your story is really that there's no single formula for building a meaningful pharmacy career. Your journey has involved uncertainty, reinvention, leadership, advocacy, innovation, business ownership, and a willingness to really keep evolving, even when it feels uncomfortable.

And I think one of the most important messages from today's conversation is that careers don't have to follow a perfectly linear path to become impactful. Sometimes the opportunities that shape us most come from mentorship and curiosity, resilience, and a willingness to back ourselves before we fully are ready to be what we need to be. So thank you for sharing your story so openly. To our listeners.

Thank you for joining us for this special episode of Your Pharmacy Career podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe, share the episode with your colleagues and connect with us online. Until next time, keep exploring the possibilities of your pharmacy career. Thank you, Krysti Lee.

speaker-0 (1:01:31)
you

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