Nancy El-Miski - From Community Pharmacy to Tech

We sit down with Nancy El-Miski, whose pharmacy journey spans more than two decades across community pharmacy, leadership, clinical services, and now digital health innovation.

Arriving in Australia as a baby with her family, Nancy grew up watching her mother build relationships and community through their family business. Those early lessons in connection, resilience, and service would go on to shape a remarkable pharmacy career.

From becoming a pharmacy manager at just 22 years of age, to leading Sydney's first 24-hour pharmacy, and more recently transitioning into her role as in-house pharmacist at SparrowHub, Nancy shares the experiences that have defined her professional journey.

In this episode:

• Why she chose community pharmacy over a PhD pathway
• The realities of managing a pharmacy that never closes
• Lessons learned through leadership and clinical service delivery
• How motherhood inspired a new chapter in her career
• The growing role of technology in supporting independent pharmacies
• Why continuous reinvention is essential for long-term career success

"The only failure is if you say no" - this is the advice that changed everything for Nancy El-Miski.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that career growth doesn't always follow a straight line - and that some of the most exciting opportunities emerge when you're willing to say yes before you feel completely ready.

You can find Nancy El-Miski on LinkedIn.

Do you have questions about your pharmacy career? Then contact us or meet our team.

Transcript

Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession. From expert advice to inspiring success stories. We're here to spark ideas, guide your career, and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.

Welcome back to your Pharmacy Career Podcast, the show where we sit down with the pharmacist academics and healthcare professionals who are building extraordinary careers and helping to shape the future of our profession. I'm your host, Krysti-Lee Patterson, and today I'm very excited about this conversation. My guest today has spent more than two decades in community pharmacy, and she has truly owned the counter, built

Clinical services from scratch and has won some of the profession's most prestigious awards. And now she's doing something that I think is really going to matter enormously for the future of independent pharmacies in our country. And who knows, maybe even beyond Australia. She is a Sydney-based pharmacist, credential diabetes educator, and the in-house pharmacist for Sparrow Hub. And if you haven't heard of Sparrow Hub, I'm sure Nancy will give us a rundown

in the conversation as we get on with the podcast. So please welcome Nancy El-Miski to the conversation. Hi Krysti-Lee, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure. Yeah, I'm excited. This is my first ever podcast and yeah, we'll just chat. Sounds great. Now I wanted to start right at the beginning. And normally on the podcast the beginning is when someone goes to pharmacy school. But I think your story doesn't

necessarily start with pharmacy school. It actually starts with your family. And so some people might not know this about you, but your family arrived in Australia when you were pretty much just a baby. No English, no roadmap, and no safety net. To me that actually sounds really scary. And I don't know how families do that. Find it hard enough just to move town. So Nancy, if you take us back to that time, how did growing up in

speaker-0 (02:15.306)

At a household where essentially your family had to start from scratch. How did that shape what has become of you and led to your journey of pharmacy? Yeah, so definitely. You know, I was three months old when I arrived out in Australia and my mum and my dad, my dad knew a bit of English, but my mum had no English background. And we were she had three kids, one was eight, four, and a three month old.

And you know, I have a little one and I I just couldn't imagine being in a country where you don't know the language, it's brand new, you know, you've left all your family and everything you know and who you are as a person, and you have to rebuild everything from scratch. And just seeing how my mum and dad did it and their work ethic and like nothing stopped them. So there weren't excuses.

Of poor us, poor us, or you know, it just was what can we do? This is a land of opportunity in Australia. We need to build a you know, a business, we need to build our family and we need to survive this situation. And, you know, having my dad's background in, you know, business and my mom's just determination and hard work ethic.

She just jumped in with my dad in the business and said, let's go. She had no English. She just learnt it with the customers. And so just seeing her how she would interact with customers and how customers were really like family and helped her to learn English as she would give them change or provide them, you know, assistance in the shop or whatever it was, that was that sense of community that I was looking at. And

hearing from my mum, constantly telling me her stories that, you know, as we grew up as kids and the support that we got from, you know, childcare to people coming in to help mom, because I used to go to the shop with mum and be in the business. And she used to be carrying me while she's still working in the business. And people would hold me while she would go and get them something that they needed and, you know, come back. And it was that sense of community. And I think that is what

speaker-0 (04:32.78)

You know, it naturally dawned on me that it was something that I needed to continue with. And I think that's what drew me to community pharmacy, even though the path was a little bit different at the beginning when I did a advanced science degree. But that's, you know, when I had the opportunity of pharmacy, that's what drew me to to that. But yeah. So

Yeah, that's amazing. Honestly, your mum sounds like a complete trial blazer. Like, I mean, especially to Yeah, to do Yeah. Bring your your kids to work and just get it and get that done. Like that's even now it's not that normal to see that happen. No, no. And look back then that you know, that was in the eighties, right? I'm showing my age right now. But that was in the eighties and it was a different feel, like, you know, you just did what you had to do with family, with

Business, you know, if you have to take the kids with you, you took the kids. And that's where, you know, when she put my older brother in childcare, the childcare center saw that she was taking me along. And they're like, come bring her along. We'll even give it to you at a half discount just to help us along because they could see that we're just striving, we're trying to put they were trying to put one foot forward. And it's just that sense of community that really just supported us during that our journey, especially at the beginning.

And which which I think she will never let us forget and we won't forget either because you know it she she literally embred it in you need to be good and I need to raise good kids because we need to give back because they gave us and we need to give them. And I'm like, Yes, mum, we'll do I've heard it probably a million times, but okay. So, you know, some never forget it.

So yeah, so that will and that's I think that's where my journey really started. So that love of community and you know, just giving back. Yeah, absolutely. Well, just what you've described, it sounds very similar to what happens in a community pharmacy. A hundred percent. Well, you think about it, that community and that support. And so you mentioned that you did advanced science and chemistry before starting to make the shift to pharmacy. So

speaker-0 (06:45.672)

Why did you decide to move into pharmacy? Did you see someone the working pharmacy or yeah, what made you decide this is the path as supposed to I don't know, if you do advanced science and chemistry, that sounds like something you're gonna end up being a research yes assistant or something like that? Yes, exactly. And I think that's where it started. Like I always had the passion for chemistry, drugs, research, education. And you know, that was just the s

the stepping stone. But then I had an opportunity where I believe it was a friend of mine. She was saying that she's going to do a stat exam, because that's what you needed at that time to do a stat exam to see if you could go into pharmacy and everything like that. And I thought to myself, well, pharmacy still has that science research background if I really wanted in the in the drugs component. But it also had that community component that I'm missing through my research.

So because as part of my research or as part of my degree in advanced science, I had an opportunity my last semester to go and work in industry for one one whole semester. So instead of doing f my last four subjects, I got chosen to work in industry and I worked at Anstow Lucas Heights.

Program. And a part of that, I worked in a lab. I was doing research. I encapsulated oils in microspheres in an oil, water emulsion. This is bringing back all my research back. But I was just, it was, you know, six to seven hours straight in a lab, but there was no community. There was no, I needed to be with patients. I needed to be talking to people. I think I'm a bit of an extrovert. So I needed that.

I'm like, I I'm loving this, but I there's something missing. And I just, you know, I got on I've offered, you know, to do my honors in with them and you know, going towards PhD and also my university gave me that opportunity. But then my stat exam came back and said, Well, Sydney University has also offered you pharmacy. And I was like, what do I do? And my dad reminded me at that time. He's like, Nancy, based on your personality and

speaker-1 (08:53.058)

Mm.

speaker-0 (09:00.77)

when you you know what you are, at least with pharmacy, it also opened up it gives you me it gave me a bit more opportunity, I felt. Like I could always go back to research if I wanted. I could always go back to a PhD, but I couldn't have community pharmacy or that hospital side or, you know, just what pharmacy could give. So that's where I said, okay, let me try our pharmacy and let me go in and and and give it a go. And yeah, and since then

you know, never look back. I remember one of my researchers, my you know, s had said to me, my lecturer, she said, you're gonna go and sell nappies, are you? I'm like, my god, like she was really, really disheartened. And I was like, No, I that's not what a pharmacist does. But anyways, like so hopefully if she's listening to these podcasts ever, she knows now that's not the case. But

Unfortunately, you know, cu sometimes we y we've got had this stereotype on pharmacists that, you know, we just star a a shop and we sell things. But we're a lot more than that. absolutely. I think that's a a really good point. And I'm sure she meant that in probably a good way, 'cause she was probably sad to lose someone like yourself in her industry. So that was I can probably understand that. Yeah, I know.

But I will never forget it. It was just I was just like, okay. I I know you just wanna say good luck and I miss you and thank you. That's okay. But everyone has to live. Absolutely. I'm sending you off. That's right. That's it. So once you graduated from Sydney Uni and started working as a pharmacist, you were offered a management position pretty early on in your career, if I've got all the

stats right. And I think when that opportunity arises, obviously that's going to be something that's like, wow, like someone believes in me. How great is this? But I'm sure also to being so young and fresh, that also would have potentially even maybe cast some doubt. So when you were first offered that position, what sort of went through your mind and how did you decide to get take on that that role?

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Yeah, it was definitely a I was just excited to become a pharmacist. And then, you know, and yeah, this was at Chemist Work Switherall Park. And you know, the the journey of getting there even in itself was becoming the intern, you know, that it wasn't easy. There were like over a hundred or a hundred and fifty applicants for that year that applied. And I had worked there for about a year or two before entering pharmacy.

And I remember even even before that, so in uni, you know how we everybody wanted to work at at pharmacy, in a pharmacy when you're at university. And I tried to to find a job and it was really hard. And I remember sending out like fifty resumes and nothing would n nothing. I got no calls. And so I remember when work placement came along, I was put in a place at Weatheral Park, Chemistworks Weatheral Park. Didn't know who they were or, you know.

the influence of the Bromders or or anything like that. All I was was that, you know, it was a big pharmacy. It was busy. It was innovative. And I was just blown away by, you know, the the the style of the pharmacy, you know, the way they did things. And I'm like, I want to work here. I remember that. And then I also remember, you know, just saying to Catherine, Catherine

Hire me. actually, not even hire me. It was more, I'll work here for free. And she started laughing at me. And I said, I just need the experience. I just need the experience. Give me the experience. I'm more than happy to just Okay, not a problem. But I said, I got exams. I'll come back later. I'll come back in in about a month. She calls me but up in a month and she says, Nancy, you don't need to work for free. I have a position for you. Start working for us. So then I start working.

And then internship came along. And then I yeah, I got accepted for my internship. Close to not being accepted though, that was another hurdle I needed to go past, but I got through. And then yeah, after a year, I wanted to become the compounding pharmacist. So I I that was my cause everyone in there sort of yeah. Everyone would have a niche. So that was sort of like, you know.

speaker-0 (13:48.172)

The Brongers bring you up as a pharmacist. They sort of want you to sort of, you know, specialize in something. And compounding has always been something that I loved. And so I went to become a compounding pharmacist and I went and did my PCCA accreditation. And then I was thrown a curveball where it's like, hi Nancy, do you want to be the manager? Because the other manager had just left suddenly. And there was always two managers at a time. I was like,

I don't I don't know. Should I? Like I literally would ask the question, you know, I I need to think about it. And I remember going home and speaking to my family and my family said, Yeah, why not? You know, what what do you have to lose? What you know, it's a little bit of hard work and of course my doubts were coming into my head going, What about this and what about that? And if I can't if I fail and if I And they're like, And so that was the the great thing of my family was like their challenges that they had.

Nothing stopped them. They're just looking at me going, nothing should stop you. You know, if you fail, you learn from it. If you, you know, there's not it you can't see it as any failure at all. And the only failure is if you say no. Like this is a great opportunity for you to learn management and be with the people. And because I was so young, I was really scared also that I'm managing people that are older than me.

more experienced than me that have been in the pharmacy, from pharmacy assistants to interns to everything that were there. They were still a little bit older than me. And I was like, how do you know how are they going to take me seriously? Are they, you know, and that and that was the hard journey for that position. But I accepted and it was actually the best decision my dad could make for me. Well, the support of my dad and my mom that they helped me

on that journey. I think because my dad's always been a businessman and he's always said, you know, you need the management side to, you know, if one day you want to own your own business, you need to know how to do leadership and manage. I said, yeah, you're right. So yeah, that's how that came along. And yeah, it will it was scary and but the best decision. And I think as you know, the scariest decisions are usually your best ones. absolutely. And you're right. I I like

speaker-0 (16:08.61)

the the fact like what's the worst that could happen or and it was like saying no to this opportunity. And I think yeah, having the ability to have some sort of opportunity presented to you like that. And you went and spoke to your family about it, of course they were going to support you, not just because you're you're their child, but to they could see that it will be a steping stone for whatever comes next. And they don't know what that is. And I'm sure at the time you didn't know what that was going to be.

But it's that opportunity. But the other thing that I really want to call this out to is having your, I guess, the owner or the partners believe in you before I guess maybe you believed in yourself. And I was also very lucky that in my first year registered I was hitting the opportunity to to step up and be a manager, which I look back now and think, my gosh, what a mistake. They should not have done that.

But like that was the like the sliding door moment, right? having people believing you and making a space for you to also make mistakes as well. Cause I'm sure you weren't perfect and there was probably things happen that now you think back and thought, why did I make that decision? Yeah. So people that are listening and maybe they're a manager or they own pharmacies or in management management positions and you have the ability to

put other people into these positions, even if they might not be perfectly ready, just going out on a limb and letting them have that opportunity means so much. So I just want to call out the Brongers for giving you that opportunity to to step up and do that. Because it it's also a risk when it's your business, right? Management and I as a business owner to think, gosh, could I hand over my business to somebody?

How scary. That's one year out, not even. So, but I had a at the time when I made the decision, I yeah, medical my internship mentor, Anne, at the time, new and and she was amazing. So she I I just looked at her, I'm like, Are you gonna help me along? You know, are you gonna she's like yes, of course, I'll support you, not a problem. But and unfortunately she left me like six months later. I'm sure she knew I think she went to have a baby.

speaker-0 (18:25.206)

I never came back and then but she was always a a great support to call on and I had great mentors. I was so lucky to be in that internship. I had Sanya to Anne to Linda Newen to you know Catherine Bronga, these the most strongest independent business minded women, Marita before she left. They like I

Like I can't thank the opportunity that I had in that first year, first couple of years when I started, to just see how they, you know, trained, the way they were pharmacists. They were all different in their own ways, but so amazing in their own ways. And you just, you know, to have the opportunity to to be in their, you know, environment and for them to mentor you and teach you, I I will never forget that.

There were some amazing times, you know. So yeah, that that was a start of my my career, to be honest, because I had amazing support at the time and belief from all of them, which was which was great. Yeah. So yeah, very, very lucky. Yeah, that's so good. And it really does make a difference. Now, if for those that maybe haven't heard of Hemisworks, especially in Wetherall Park.

which is in in one of the suburbs in in Sydney, I guess western western Sydney. But it is also a famous pharmacy because it was, I believe, was it the first twenty-four hour pharmacy or the first one in Sydney? I think the first one in Sydney I I certainly remember at the time when it was happening there was a lot of talk about it. That's right. It was Yeah, so first one in Sydney. So that was a a little while ago now.

But were you at the pharmacy when it was making that change to twenty four hours? Yeah, exactly. So that year I took over, it was still a nine to nine pharmacy. I thought, okay, that's fine. I can manage this. And then a year later, you know, Anne had left. So I became a sole manager. There was always two pharmacists running, but became one. And then yeah, they wanted to change and become a twenty four hour pharmacy. one of

speaker-0 (20:39.018)

Australia's first Sydney's first, you know, 24 hour pharmacy. And yeah, that that transition that that was something else. That really changed everything for me as well. Because you know, I had two teams. I had to manage a dayti the the daytime pharmacy team and the nighttime pharmacy team. The shop never closed. I didn't use my keys anymore. Didn't need to open up, didn't need to close. Yeah, so that that

You know, if it's twenty four hours, it's twenty-four hours, seven days a week, public holidays. But it was a great thing for the for the area. So we're across from we were across from a hospital, Fairfield Hospital, and that really helped even the the hospital itself from the demand of people just going in. They could just pop in and ask us questions and we could help. And that helped to reduce the pressures off of the hospital. Yeah, but just

Just the and then the customers, the community started to shop differently. They started people were like, are people coming in at, you know, past ten o'clock? Yeah, they're shopping. It it they started to change. So the community started to maybe go home from work and go, I can go later to the pharmacy. We used to become busy from 10 p.m. to one o'clock at night. And then from I would say

Yeah, it was it was yeah, they'd come in in their pajamas, nice, relax, coming in, putting their scripts in, looking up makeup, skincare. You know, like if I knew my pharmacy was open twenty four hours, I think I would do the same, you know, having a a little one I could put him to sleep and then I'll just say, see you later. I'm going to do a little bit of shopping in the in the pharmacy and and you know, and that's what it was. So it it was great in that respect for the community. They always knew that there was someone open.

Their pharmacy was open. They could talk to a pharmacist at any time. And then yeah, it, you know, that definitely wasn't easy to manage. It took a lot to work, but I had a great team. I had great pharmacists, every single one that came in. I was really lucky with my night pharmacist because for night pharmacists to be able to maintain that kind of work, so they'd work from nine o'clock at night to nine in the morning. So it's a 12-hour shift.

speaker-0 (23:01.62)

Isn't easy. And to maintain that for a year or two or three sometimes, I would keep the same person. I was very lucky to have those pharmacists who manage those times. So yeah, that was that was the Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, 24 hours. So it never stopped. It never stopped. My phone never stopped. Issues never stopped.

Yeah, not it nothing stopped. I remember three in the morning I had a pharmacist call me, the fridges are down, the electricity's gone down, Netsy put the clothes on, went into the pharmacy at three in the morning to help unpack the fridge, make sure everything's, you know, steady and and things like that. So it really was a was a a job that never ended. Yeah, absolutely. And I think too, when you called out like ha essentially having two teams, like the shift

workers, it's you've got the day team and the night team. And not just from a logistical I guess, challenge and having to roster that, but being able to this is something that I've always thought about. I've I've never worked in a twenty four hour pharmacy. But as someone that lives in Sydney and it's a twenty four hour city, I actually think there should be more twenty four hour pharmacies in the rural areas. I think they actually need them so much. But

One thing I was thinking of is how do you maintain like the level of service? Because you even think about when you're managing a pharmacy, how do you maintain that same service on a weekend when you've got different stuff, let alone at nighttime when you're tired? Like I'm just thinking myself, gosh, if I was that pharmacist at 3 a.m., would I be able to give that same passion to that patient at 3 a.m.? If I as someone that's

Yeah, coming in at ten AM during the day, which I feel like I probably could because I'm more of a nighttime owl than a daytime person. So maybe twenty-four hour pharmacy is where I should be. Exactly. And and I had those kind of pharmacists. They're the pharmacists that wanted that night shift, could maintain that kind of that's when they shined. It wasn't that

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you know, it bothered them. And so they could still give that same focus. And I always kept them busy, of course. You want to keep busy when you're doing a 24 hour shift. well, not twenty-four hours, but a night shift. So, you know, preparing, you know, from your methadone to Webster packing to Webster, you know, checking and things like that. Soyou've always got something to do. And I and I did a few shifts myself to experience what, you know, they're experiencing and what they're going through. So I could

Be honest with how much they can handle and not handle if they've, you know, doing a a a big shift. And you you always have to make sure you're taking care of their health and their mental health and their sleep and if they and I would always ask them if you're f feeling unwell, if you're not

Just you you're not feeling it. Let me know. Give me a few hours, you know, beforehand. Tell me in the morning, then I can send the pharmacist home to sleep and do that shift if that's the case. So yeah, it was the role that I had was very much a people role during the 24-hour pharmacy because I needed to make sure that my team was really taken care of. Because by taking care of them, I knew that they could take care of the customers and they'll take care of them really well if.

You know, they know that someone has their back in a way. So yeah, that's how I took care of that. And I appreciate every single one of them because I really would not have been able to do any of it if they didn't have that same work ethic that I, you know, I expected and had for the customers to uphold that pharmacy to stay 24 hours and with the busyness, because we were a very high volume pharmacy as well, at the same time and clinical services.

the same time. So we had our sleep apnea, we had compounding, you know, we were just constantly bringing, we had a baby nurse, we had, we were always the Brongers are always innovating something new. We had teeth whitening service at one stage. And I remember a lady, yeah. I remember a lady out a lady coming in at three in the morning saying, Can I get my teeth whitened? And I was like, not really at 3 a.m, but at at a normal time. Yes, definitely you can book it. So yeah.

speaker-1 (27:18.094)

So

speaker-0 (27:20.418)

But I guess that's like I laugh at that, but it's also like when you think about like other people's professions, there's there's a lot of shift workers that are out there and yeah, they need to be able to go to the pharmacy and get all these things done. And if they're not open, where do they go? They don't get that. Very true. Yeah. Like unfortunately we are living in a pl time where it's all just nine to five and

Everything's mainly open nine to five, but we work nine to five. So when are we gonna get the time to to do those things? And i it it makes sense that we start to have twenty four hour pharmacies and we start to have things open up a lot later because just society has changed and our demands and needs have changed as well. So yeah, very innovative at that time. Absolutely. And I also think too absolutely. Even still down, there's st not

that that many 24 hour pharmacies around. But even I always thought that by having a pharmacy that's opening longer hours, it would be hard to find staff. But I'm now actually thinking a little bit differently about it. And if you are open 24 hours, well, maybe there's actually pharmacists out there where those odd shifts may actually be more convenient for them. Like I'm thinking maybe mums are dads and they need to

When the dad or mum comes home, great, now you're home, now I can go to work. Did you find it hard to find pharmacists to fill these shifts? Yeah. And and and that's exactly right. When I became a mum, I started to take on those shifts that were more from five to twelve, which, you know, some pharmacies offer, or you've got your five to ten. I would do more the afternoon shift than so my husband could take care of my son. And yeah, it's very common. I I know a lot of mums that are in that in that.

area at the moment where they're doing more of the night. And there are just some people as well, some pharmacists that I that, you know, that took on that role that were more interested in doing other things in the day and they had other priorities. And by doing and by consolidating their day for, you know, two to three nights a week, they could focus on whatever it is that they wanted to really focus on and build. And so that's where a lot of people

speaker-0 (29:41.782)

Are okay with doing night shifts as well. So you just it's just certain personalities and certain people that have a different not everyone wants that nine to five. Yeah, actually that's so true. I'm certainly one of those people. I couldn't do a normal nine to five role. Very difficult. 

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Now, Nancy, I touched on it in your intro actually, and you are now the in-house pharmacist at Sparrow Hub. I'd love to first of all know let let's l tell our listeners what on earth is Sparrow Hub. And yeah, how did you make the jump to yeah, working these

24 hour pharmacies to I guess now working for a text now. Pretty cool. Sparrow with Sparrow. Yeah, it came along new two years after. So I had my little one and was on maternity leave for two years. And then I was locuming a little bit throughout that time just to always keep my, you know, my education up. But my focus, but I just I I wasn't sure what

What I wanted to do, to be honest. I I knew I needed to do something different than what I've always done, but I didn't know what that was. And then I had the opportunity, you know, Catherine Bronger called me and said, Hey, I have this company and they're it's called Sparrow Hub. And she was working with these engineers, Liam and Hamish and and the guys there. And there is they have built a digital platform for pharmacies.

to help with dispensary flow and the way that she explained it to me at at the beginning, I was sort of like, I wish I had this in my time when I was running the businesses. Because this would help me so much. All I that's all I thought straight away. Like I didn't even know much about it. I didn't I didn't even ask any more questions. I was just like, my God, pharmacies should know that this is available so weak

speaker-0 (32:02.242)

They can make things a lot easier. And then, yeah, so then I got in. So Sparrow Hub pretty much is mainly focusing as an ordering system. So it helps to simplize like payments for patients. So if, for example, especially if you're like a compounding pharmacy, for example, or you do medicinal cannabis and you need to get those payments from the customers to then order and then

get it delivered out or send it out. SparrowHub just makes it so much easier. It makes it digitalized, where integrated with Ozpost and DoorDash. And of course you've got click and collect. So what how that works is you know you can literally send a payment link within a second. The pharmacist plugs it in, sends a payment link, they pay for it the patient, then you and then they also get

the delivery options and everything, they pay for it. And then the pharmacy literally just packs it up and and sends it out. But it's all there digitalized for the for the pharmacy. We have a subscription model now. So now we can put people on a subscription model to allow, you know, for them to do a complete solution for a patient. So for example, you know, I loved it for a patient comes and tells you, Nancy, doctor has told me I need to be on iron tablets.

And I need to be on it for at least six months before my next appointment. To make them accountable, put them on the subscription, and then you're sending the medication out every month to them automatically. They know that they need to take the medication, and then you can do a follow-up consult right after. So it's just trying to make the interaction with a patient easier, efficient, completing the solution for the patient.

And making sure they're on their right journey to complete what they need. So many people start taking an iron tablet for a month and then they stop. And then their energy levels are low and everything's low. Then we forget as well that this patient was on an iron tablet. We forget maybe to follow up with the patient. So then this is allowing the business to make sure that we're being proactive and we're approaching the customer to find a solution.

speaker-0 (34:19.352)

For, you know, that kind of, you know, situation. So to others, subscription is like, I'm doing an Amazon. No, in pharmacy, a subscription is more. There's more to it. It's helping them with that journey. You know, a payment link is just simple as a patient needs that medication delivered every month. Let's make it easy. Let's make it simple for them. Why are we doing it over the phone and with a credit card and going?

You know, and forgetting maybe the next month and go it's just when like my gosh, I know exactly what you're talking about. Like what you just you understand. This would just change so many people's thoughts. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. When I saw the pa when I go into a compounding lab and I just see they're still doing the same and I'm just like, you know, you could just quickly send this and do this and and sometimes compounding people might not

think about the business as well. And when I come in and say, you know, cash flow is really important for a business. So I know some people just, but we we trust our customer. They'll just they'll pay when they come in. I I'm not saying that we don't trust our customer, but cash flow is really important. We need, you know, to make sure, you know, your payments are done, things are organized. Then we've got reoccurring cart to make sure that are we getting, are we being proactive with their compounding and making sure they're completing all their vitamin D.

you know, fifty thousand that they're taking. Are they completing all that that the cream that they need to be on? Or the omeprzole for that mum that may forget, I know I would forget, you know, when it's finishing off. It'd be lovely if my pharmacy could just, hey, remember, you've got your omezole, I can make it up. I'll just send you a link to pay for it and we'll get it delivered out to you in twenty eight days. that thank you. Yes, because it's the same thing over and over. So these are the little things that

you know, you can see that pharmacy really needs to streamline and make easy for themselves as well as the customer. And so that's where, you know, that's how Sparrow Hub works. And that's where I come in because I can come in and just look at your processes and say, hey, let's fix this, let's do this, let's make this easy, let's, you know, look at it in a different way and let's digitalize it all and have it all there and not no more papers, no more calling customers and taking credit cards.

speaker-0 (36:44.598)

Let's get into this digital world that we are. like even just the fact like I'm just thinking now at the last pharmacy that I worked in because I still do a little me as well. And it's not even like cash flow, yes, is a thing, but I just actually was saying to a friend of mine, I'm like, someone needs to create a subscription type model for farmers because like it's crazy. I have a subscription with my dog at Barn and at the Vets and

They just take my $50 out every month and I get unlimited vet visits. I they send me reminders about my dog's vaccinations. Like it just saves so much time. I'm like, and then they just send the dog food out whenever I need it. Like, why can't we have this with pharmacy? Well you we already do at Sparrow Hub. And this is not an ad. I do even know that Sparrow Hub did this. This is blowing my mind.

speaker-1 (37:38.444)

They

speaker-0 (37:38.584)

There you go. Exactly. Exactly. If you know, we're doing it if we're doing it for our pets, we need to do it for ourselves as well. So yeah, it just it makes sense. And that's where things are heading. And it's heading very quickly, as you know, with how technology is. It we're reallyit's we need to catch up. And I feel like pharmacies, especially those independent pharmacies, they need that support to bring in that technology, that convenience. Because people will chase convenience. People will look for convenience.

convenience and and waiting time. So and like I believe there was a a thing that came out at APP where the two biggest things that made a a person leave a pharmacy was waiting time and lack of communication. And so that's where, you know, having that con constant communication, being on top of it, being proactive with SMSs, with

texting with reoccurring cuts with you know what whatever digital system you need in your pharmacy, that's what it needs to be because people will leave and they'll just find who's convenient, who has these things set up already. And they will just, you know, go there. And so yeah, that's why, yeah, now that's my role at the moment. I'm enjoying it a lot. And I'm trying to bring in more

I'd love to bring in more tech stuff and more where this AI stuff is heading because I can I can foresee that that's definitely gonna make things better for both of us, both you know, business and customers, I believe. absolutely. And I think when you talk about independent pharmacies as well, like I think there is a big risk that we may end up being like other countries like America, where we're just

There's just so many chains and like in America, there's so many small independent pharmacies that are closing down. But we're so lucky in Australia where we have the rules where you have to be a pharmacist to own a pharmacy, which is great. But also to we have the ability now to leverage these technologies to make it easier. And I think the previous mindset, and if I'm just stereotyping, was

speaker-0 (39:51.072)

Okay, well, to have access to certain technologies to improve efficiencies in your pharmacy, you had to join a a pharmacy group. You couldn't do it on your on your own. But now you can do it on your own, which I think is is really fantastic. And you mentioned like two of the reasons why people leave a pharmacy is waiting times and communication. And I think that goes hand in hand. And I'll give an example as to why I think this is so important is the other day I was

at my local GP in Sydney and I waited two and a half hours to see my GP. And that just sounds first of all insane, but I didn't mind that because they have an a mobile app and they send you notifications. So you check in and then they'll send you a notification when you're like fifth in the queue. So you can go to the shops next door, do stuff. And it says you'll like make sure

You're in the GP clinic in the next 30 minutes so that you don't miss your appointment. But they also have free Wi-Fi in there. So like I was literally at the GP on a Saturday waiting for my GP, but there's people there with their laptops, there's people knitting. Like it's a complete change of mindset, but because they're communicating with you. And so this is not prepared, this part of this conversation. Like this only another day. But I didn't mind sitting there waiting because

Yeah, I was getting the updates on my phone that you're moving up in the queue and when I first checked in it it gave the estimated white time. And even though it was like an hour and forty-five minutes or something, I was like, Okay, but I know. It's in my mind now. It's not. And this is something that I've always has frustrated me in pharmacy when people just automatically say, yeah, it'll be five minutes. Exactly. Exactly. And then it's not, and that's when people get annoyed.

Yeah, and and that's exactly where Sparrow Q came in as well. So we've got the SMS where you text message the customer to let them know and text let message them when they're and when they're back. And a hundred percent. And also it's also doesn't make the patient hover around at the dispensary, you know, tapping their fingers, making sure gu you know, is it ready, is it not ready? It reduces pressure off the team. And I'm sure that medical center figured that out because

speaker-0 (42:12.802)

The pressure I rem I I know I can see it when for the secretaries at the in the medical center, they always cop it. You know, people are sick and they're tired and they just wanna, you know, see the doctor. And I'm sure just no the patient being notified of communication just eases that anxiety, eases knowing what's happening. That ease. Now you can then choose your time wisely. So you chose, okay, well, I'll sit here and I'll go on my laptop.

I'll choose to go to the shop, I'll choose to do this. It it really makes a difference because you're giving the customer their time back. And that's really important. Time is precious. And if people realize how important and respect people's time, absolutely. It's, you know, you you can win the game with that, just in respect of people's time. absolutely. Now I want to kind of transition back a little bit to.

just before you join Sparrow Hub. So you have a little one, I believe around trouble now, like two or three or maybe a little bit older. Two, yes. Here's two. And so for you and I've worked with so many pharmacists that end up going on maternity leave and I'm sure they all probably have that feeling of like s if you're stepping away you're going to lose

what you've maybe achieved in your career and that's going to, I guess, maybe become stagnant. So whereas now like look now two years on you've had your first, you've now had a second, but you still manage to stay innovative and part of the industry. I'd love to just hear your thoughts on that kind of transition period and how you

Got through that. It's not something I can talk to because I've not had to experience it myself. But I know there are a lot of women pharmacists out there that do. And I'm sure they probably go through the same thing. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, I definitely felt it, you know. after I thought I would be the, you know, six months in, I'd probably go back to work full time and start my career again and just continue on what I was doing. But, you know.

speaker-0 (44:29.774)

I chose not to. I just said I need this time with my little one and I can't I won't get this back and and I chose that. But it did it does still play on your mind, right? You're you're sitting there thinking, I want to be with my son. I I I want to have this opportunity, but at the same time you're torn and thinking, Am I being left behind? How do I go back? How do I people going even to remember who I am or what you know, like or

speaker-1 (44:58.83)

No.

speaker-0 (44:59.68)

You know, like because you change a lot w in in motherhood from physical to emotional to everything. Your perspective can change. But then yeah, I I I think I had to just slowly go in and just keep reminding myself that, you know, the yes, the world doesn't stop, but you can always restart anytime. You can always

This it gave me an opportunity to go, you know what, Nancy, you know, you don't have to go back to what you were. You don't have to. You can start fresh. And I was happy to start like an intern again. And I feel that this job even with Sparrow is like an intern for me. You know, I've never done sales. I've never now I'm listening to, you know, sale podcasts about how to sell and how to talk and how to do that.

You know, I'm looking, I'm using AI technology all the time, you know, from Claude to Gemini to, you know, all of these different type of, you know, I'm I'm literally out of my zone. I'm not in the zone. I'm only in my zone when I go into a pharmacy, but I'm out of the zone most of the time now. And so yeah, I think it just gave me an opportunity to restart and just start a new journey, to be honest. And I'm just doing it slowly.

Surely, you know, and creeping up, you know, getting back in and and k reconnecting. So I love the fact that I can reconnect with pharmacies and g and and talk to people. But Sparra Hub, the good thing about it was that it it it doesn't stop at just pharmacy. We're talking to other companies that use our ordering system, even hospitals, even you know, it doesn't have to be just community pharmacy. So it's great to see that it's making a difference.

And I get an opportunity to sort of I'm using my brain differently. So I'm I I'm now less pe people team driven, more problem solving for a company or a a situation to help customers to get the product that they need. so yes, you know, that's that's the journey at the moment. But yeah, no, it's been I feel like a much calmer, a more

speaker-0 (47:13.078)

I feel a lot more calm and more That's good yeah, which is good. I maybe that comes with age, but I I I feel like I take things not as so seriously, so my God, you know, this is the end. I don't s look at problems like that anymore. I remember when with the lack of experience, you look at problems in a more serious, my god, you know, this, this, that. Now I look, I

we just have to reset our mind and rethink, okay, we don't get this one, that's okay. We can just move and pivot to this one. And so it's a lot more calmer, more more relaxed. well, that's really good. And I think it's funny you mentioned about how you're using your brain differently, but then as you described it, what you were doing and solving problems to give a good outcome or solution to the the customer.

That's what we would we do every day. Exactly. That's true. So like and I think that just shows how transferable the skills of a pharmacist is as well. And so for those that are listening, some of our listeners have are still studying or maybe they've just f finished their pharmacy degree. And I think we all have moments where we think, my gosh, is this actually like

Where I want to go in my life. But I think the great thing about being a pharmacist and having that pharmacy degree is that it gives us that ability to problem solve on your feet quickly. And that is something that is so unique to our field and something that, especially now in the tech space, is really in high demand. And so I think, yeah, if you're listening to this podcast now, I think you should be, yeah, really proud of the.

the skills that you've got because it really can be transferable into any sort of industry. And you can always come back. That's the thing. It'll always be wedding day. And you can always put on a white coat and jump in. And I think that's another great thing about pharmacy is it does give you the ability, like you said, when you were on that ladies still did some locum shifts. when I was starting my business I was still doing some locum shifts because yeah you can just jump in. So what's the worst that can happen is wow

speaker-0 (49:31.614)

I am a pharmacist and that used to be my dream job. So copy that for that. Exactly. Exactly. Now, Nancy, we've come to the end of the podcast. But I've really generally enjoying this conversation and getting to know you a little bit more. But I want to finish off with some I guess rapid fire rounds. It's something that we haven't done on this p podcast before. Soyou're the first cab off the rank. And so we're putting you on the spot just to answer a couple of questions and just

no pressure, just the first thing that pops into your mind. Are you ready to take on the challenge? Let's go. Okay, so first question is what is the best piece of ice you've ever received? I would say it's from Marita, my mentor at the time. She had told me to stay genuine to yourself and the way that you want to lead, be genuine.

Don't listen to anybody saying to you, you need to be tougher or softer or stronger or this. Just be you. And so I took that on really well. So yes. I love that. That's awesome. Just be you. And I think that would align very well with the the Gen Z pharmacists out there. They're all about being the best version of you. The second question is, what's the one thing pharmacists need to start owning or believing about themselves?

I think they they need to know that we provide a lot and truly believe know that because we're always the usually the first stop for most people's concerns and worries. And we need to be able to truly believe our that we you know, our job is very needed and very how can I say the amount of times that

you're constantly that first person before their doctor, before a family member, before anybody, that person has come to the pharmacy to ask for your advice, your assistance, your guid guidance. So it's really important that we take that seriously and we know and we're educating ourselves constantly to really help those patients refer and and know when to refer, what to guide them and what to do. So that's a massive responsibility and we should be proud of it.

speaker-0 (51:52.628)

Yeah, absolutely. So next question is what is the service or initiative you're most proud of building in your pharmacy career? to be honest, it was a really simple one. We built a wall of photos with our customers. So as our customers would enter, and this was that priceline at the time.

we would have them to choose, you know, a few of the pharmacists or assistants, whoever they wanted, and would take a a selfie with them and then post it on the wall in the pharmacy. And that wall became massive. It was a really big wall and people loved it. And it it made them feel like home.

that this is my pharmacy, my photos up there, my mama's photos up there, my grandma's photos up there. And it really created that sense of community. So it it took a long time to create and print those photos and put them up and stick them up on the wall. But it really made a massive difference in the feel of of the team as well as the as the the community. So that I think that was, you know, above I think all the awards and and things like that. And

Clinical services that I felt the most love. I love that. And I think it's right that it's the little things. It makes people feel valued and part of something bigger than than they are. So I love that. so second last question: what does success feel like now to when you first became a pharmacist? Now I feel like it probably has changed based on our conversation, but what does success?

feel like or look like for you. So I feel like, you know, when you first start, you're really just chasing your skill set. You're just trying to build yourself, build things and and and you're really just running. I think now you have the time to sort of look back and, you know, you see the bigger picture and you like I said before, you problem solve better. You see success through your service.

speaker-0 (53:55.648)

Because of all the experience that you have now and the eye-opening understanding that you have, I find success comes through, you know, being able to to give that back through your experience and service and helping people. So that's that's how I see my success at the moment is just being able to use that hard work that I've been through, the experience that I've been through, the journey I've been through to just guide and and help.

I think that's that's a success, to be honest. Yeah, I love that. last one, a fun question. Is there a book, podcast, or resource that you're listening to or reading at the moment that you would like to share with our listeners? It doesn't even have to be pharmacy related. I'm I'm a fan of the

Diary of a CEO, love that podcast. So I'm always listening to that because it just has a variety of different things that I love to listen. You know, from health to sales to, you know, anything that can I I that and I I find it all values and you can always bring it back to pharmacy. So I always take that information and even bring it back to even if I'm chatting with a staff member or talking to a customer that, you know, I recently heard about creatine, what creatine does and

How this helps. And so just yeah, I think keep learning, keep listening to different things because you'd be surprised how a lot of things that are influenced outside will come into your business or come into pharmacy and your and your education every day. Love it. I'm also a big fan of Gary of the CEO podcast. So there's always so many things to learn. And even I also like going back and listening to some of his older podcasts as well. They are very different to the

The the new ones, but they're all really, really good. Well, Nancy, thank you so much. I generally really appreciate the time that you've taken today to chat to me and for our listeners. I guess I really hope that everyone listening today has taken something from this. I think no matter whether you're a pharmacy student, just trying to get through the next exam. And when you hear people say to you, what's next? Where are you going to do your internship? And you're thinking,

speaker-0 (56:12.172)

Mate, I just need to get through my exam and then I'll let you know to maybe a pharmacist that's been doing this for twenty years and needed a friendly reminder as to why it matters. Nancy, I think your story and your career to date is a reminder that the work that pharmacists do every single day, whether it's just behind the counter, but knowing your patients, showing up for them and being that person that they come to, that work matters a lot more than what you might think, especially at a time when it's busy.

So if you want to connect with Nancy or follow her on LinkedIn, we'll have the link in the show notes. And if you want to find more about Sparrow Hub, we'll have the information in the show notes as well. Now, if you enjoyed today's podcast, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. And as a reminder, I'm Krysti-Lee Patterson and you're listening to your pharmacy career podcast with Nancy El-Miski. Thank you. And Nancy, I'm so glad you joined us for the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for tuning in to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly sponsored by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation, and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au. 

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